Eternal Torment?

Let’s say I’m unsaved. I’ve lived a fairly decent life, treated others well, but I have not been convinced that I’m I need of a savior. I just can’t buy the stories about that Jesus guy.

Or maybe I know that Jesus is real, but I worship Satan because he gives me power when I sacrifice children after raping and torturing them. After all, there are no real Satan worshippers that worship him in a vacuum. We know the reality of Jesus and He is the scariest thing imaginable – the only power that cannot be conquered, and it pisses us off.

What will be my end? Are both hypotheticals met with the same resolution, or are they treated differently? Neither has acknowledged Jesus as savior. Will one have a chance at heaven in the judgement? Will both be obliterated in the second death, simply ceasing to exist? Or will one or both be assigned to eternal torment in hell. Never-ending punishment for the selfish choices made in this short life?

Recently I’ve noticed a surge in podcasts and commentary about the nature of what happens after death to the unsaved.  I tend to listen to podcasts that question mainstream beliefs because the mainstream has been thoroughly corrupted. These hosts generally turn to the Bible alone and practice sound discernment and scholarship when making decisions on doctrine. I appreciate that.

I appreciate it, but I still don’t always agree. And that’s OK, at least as long as it doesn’t cause conflict or disruption to the body of Christ. The body is told in Ephesians 4 that we are to work towards building up the body of Christ “UNTIL we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.” That UNTIL means we are not there yet. We still have disagreements. But we also still get along and love each other and earnestly work towards that day.

I personally know two of these hosts and have been on their shows. They are people I will vouch for all day long because they are having conversations that need to be had. The ones that are not allowed in most church buildings. The nature of having these difficult conversations is that they may be messy sometimes, because we cannot all be right all the time. I see this essay as part of that conversation. I have tried to keep the tone light, but it is not meant to mock, belittle or berate anyone. It is meant to show the research I have come up with. The issues that were not covered in the shows I heard. My view seems clear to me. But the opposing view is clear to them. If you have never thought of the issue before or somehow have only ever looked at my side (unusual!), please research the other side as well before deciding for yourself. It is important.

Apparently, actor Kirk Cameron appeared somewhere and stated that he believed in Annihilationism – the belief that the unsaved dead simply cease to exist or perhaps cease to exist after a period of hell-like punishment. This seems to have caused a mild uproar in certain circles because it goes against mainstream beliefs. The shows I listen to felt the need to respond in defense their own understanding, much like I am doing now with them.

I’m always quite wary of any declaration made by the famous. But I’m also not going to shun anything they say just because they said it. I have not personally listened to what Mr. Cameron had to say. I really haven’t paid attention to him since my little sister subscribed to ‘tween heartthrob magazines in 1986. I don’t know the arguments he used to make his points, and I probably won’t bother looking them up.

But the conversation made me think.

I honestly had not even heard the term Annihilationism before any of this came out, yet it is exactly what I believe. But am I right?

It is worth revisiting what I was taught and looking deeper into what the Word of God says and doesn’t say. Even more important is looking at what the Word of God SHOWS – the patterns that are laid out throughout scripture by examples.

I’ve been looking at this with a complete willingness to being wrong and changing my stance. After all, I don’t want to teach anyone that they will simply cease to exist without repentance if the reality is much more severe. Yet the more I look, the more I am convinced that God does not and cannot punish anyone eternally. The first and most basic verse that comes to my mind is 2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” That word that is translated perish there is apollumi – to destroy fully and utterly. Full and utter destruction is how Peter views God’s plan for those who don’t repent.

The arguments for eternal damnation echoed in the various shows I heard revolve almost exclusively on the Greek words “aion” and “aionios.” It is written right there in black and white. Matthew 18:8, Eternal Fire. Matthew 25:46, Eternal Punishment. But that is not where I am going to go first. Word studies can be rather dry and I don’t want to lose you too quickly. I’ll get there. It is better to first lay the groundwork of a pattern.

 It starts in Genesis 3. Eve eats from the forbidden tree. Adam eats from it, too. Adam blames his wife. Eve blames the snake. They all receive curses for their behavior. Yahweh’s very next move: “Now, lest he reach out his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever…” And God sent them out of Eden. Up until that point, they were allowed to eat of the tree of life to inherit eternal life. Afterwards, though, God had to protect them from what would have been a complete disaster.

It is apparent that God did not want anyone living forever in a sinful state. To safeguard His plan for mankind, He had to remove humans from the presence of the tree of life. Living forever while still fallen would have meant eternal torture and punishment for what they did! But Yahweh did not allow it.

God had already told them that death was the punishment for eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death. NOT Eternal Torment! But God had mercy and did not kill them, at least not immediately. We are not even told that either of them repented before receiving such mercy. Their punishment in lieu of immediate death was to labor in the sun tilling the soil and bearing children in pain. He wanted to teach them and all of mankind His ways and work out a system where they could receive forgiveness to regain the sin-free nature. This is God’s character. He loves His children.

Adam and Eve would eventually die. And they did receive punishment. But their punishment was temporary UNTIL they died. This is the pattern.

Isaiah 33:14 asks the question, “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?” The answer to this rhetorical question is “none” because they will be dead upon entry unless they somehow gained back access to the tree of life first. But we just saw that God had removed them from it.

The ultimate system to redeem mankind from their sin to grant access back to the tree of life would involve Jesus Christ, who’s death, burial and resurrection would conquer sin and death for all who would accept it. But what about those who would not accept it? Would God decide that those who did not accept the plan would then be worthy of eternal punishment, even though that wasn’t even the original plan for Adam and Eve’s sin? I’ll get there. But let’s continue with the pattern a bit.

Israel.

Israel was set aside as a special creation to Yahweh, much like Adam and Eve were. Israel also fell. They had promised at Sinai that they would keep Yahweh’s commandments, of which there were now ten (with many others as explanation and example) instead of just one. But they didn’t. Instead, they built a golden calf to worship because Moses went missing for over a month. God’s anger burned hot and He threatened to destroy them all and start over with Moses. Destroy. Not Eternally Punish. But He didn’t. At Moses intercession, He relented from the death they deserved. They were still punished. Three thousand were killed as an example to the remaining millions and then they were plagued. He also said instead of blotting Moses out of His book, He would blot out those who sinned. Blot out. Not Eternally Punish (Exodus 32:32-34).

If you look up Exodus 32 verse 34, in many translations you will see the word punishment (“I will visit punishment on them for their sin.”. That word is not there in the original Hebrew. It is simply the word “visit”, which can mean for either friendly or hostile purposes. The visitation is for whatever reckoning God has in mind. It possibly includes punishment but does not necessitate it. Knowing God’s history of mercy, there is also good reason to think other things could be in mind, or that the severity could be minimized. Regardless, the visitation or punishment would be done and then He would move on. It would not be eternal.

David.

Second Samuel chapter 24. God was upset at Israel again because they were being Israel again. So He moved David to decree a census in Israel. God was not pleased because He had said not to do so. (Then why did He move David to do it? In order to punish Israel). As soon as it was done, David felt guilty and repented. The prophet Gad was sent to give David a choice. Verse 12, “Shall seven years of famine come to you in your land? Or shall you flee three months before your enemies, while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days’ plague in your land?” David’s distressed response was, “Please let us fall in to the hand of the Lord, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hand of man.” David knew the character of Yahweh. He is much more merciful than man. Punishment did come, and then punishment went.

Again, when David killed Uriah to get Bathsheba. Their first child died as punishment, then David was again clean before God.

I could go through many other stories. Pretty much every one of Israel and Judah’s kings. Sin. Punishment. Mercy. Forgiveness. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Even after exile, it was not permanent. He forgave and allowed them to return to Jerusalem to rebuild.

But does any of that mean that God would not punish eternally after the final judgement? I think it builds a decent case. Biblical patterns are there for a reason. Yet I can see that it doesn’t necessarily Prove anything. After all, the words are still there in black and white: Eternal Fire. Eternal Punishment.

But I will go one more place. I started in Genesis, so I will end in Revelation, where the fall of mankind is book-ended. We are redeemed and the tree of life makes its reappearance.

At the great white throne judgement, we read in Revelation 20:13-14,

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Make note of a few things here. Both Death and Hades (the realm of the dead) are cast into the lake of fire, and it is called the second death. It is not called the second Life of Eternal Torture. It is death. To burn forever with full consciousness would not be death at all, but would actually be eternal life, only a lot warmer.

1Corinthians 15:55, “Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?” If Death and Hades were allowed to keep their dead in a form of conscious awareness forever, it could be said that they had a form of victory. But they don’t. They lose. Their dead are gone forever. Not conscious forever. That is their eternal punishment.

Chapter 21 of Revelation continues with a new heaven and a new earth, with New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. And God speaks, saying,

Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain. For the former things have passed away.

That last statement could not be made if right next door there were still untold millions of people writhing in agony. The former things have passed away. They no longer exist. Eternal torment would require those things to exist. I’m really not sure how to get around that.

The other side will bring up that just a few verses down the bad people show up again. Chapter 21, verse 6-8,

And He said to me It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolater, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

See! They are still around!

But are they? All I see that saying is that they will have died in the second death. This is simply explaining why they are not present. Or where was it explained that going into the lake of fire can result in a form of eternal life?  The clear inference in every case is that the trip into the lake of fire results in death. Death meaning non-existence. Not death meaning eternal life. Actually it is not even inference because it is stated explicitly that it is the second death. The first death was death of the body only. The soul was then held in Hades for judgement, at which point those souls who were not found righteous were plunged into the lake of fire, called the second death.

Matthew 10:28, “Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Both soul and body are destroyed, not eternally punished. After the physical body died, did it exist in Hades? No, it was rotting in the soil somewhere until it returned to dust. It is the same pattern for the soul when it dies.

After some lengthy descriptions of the New Jerusalem, the Tree of Life shows up again in Chapter 22.

And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse.”

It is finally safe for God to allow access to the tree of life again because the evil ones are gone and sin is gone and the curse is gone and only righteousness remains.

But Matthew 18:8 and Matthew 25:46! Eternal Fire! Eternal Punishment!

OK. Let’s go there. Maybe we’ll find a contradiction there.

Maybe.

That is why I built a case first from many actual examples and patterns of God’s character and explained the overarching story that began in Genesis and ended in Revelation. God made a plan for mankind to live forever in peace, righteousness and glory. That plan did not include a neighboring kingdom of perennially terrorized people without hope of anything changing forever.

But I’m finally ready to look at Matthew 18:8 and 25:46. And other places. Those two are just examples of these phrases that are used in other places as well. But the concepts are the same everywhere.

First Matthew 18:8, “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the eternal fire.” The simplest thing to say here, without going into the Greek, and assuming that eternal really means eternal, is that fire being eternal does not mean that those things thrown into it are eternal as well.

Matthew 25:45-46, “Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me. These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” A similar argument can be made here, assuming eternal means eternal. The punishment is eternal, but what is the punishment? Death. That is what the wages of sin is. The eternal punishment is eternal death. You will never come back to life for all of eternity to experience either the bliss of heaven or the agony of hell.

It doesn’t seem like I even need the word study, but y’all have been waiting a long time for it. So here goes. I’m not a Greek scholar. I don’t speak Greek. I can look up words in a dictionary like anyone else. And I did. And most Bible dictionaries and Lexicons (consulted volumes include: Strong’s, Brown Driver Briggs, The Complete Word Study Dictionary, International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vine’s.) did say that the two Greek words in question – Aion and Aionios (literally, “pertaining to Aion”) could be translated as eternal or forever or everlasting. They also said they could be translated as an age, and that that was the original root meaning. Clear as mud.

For as long as I’ve held this belief (at least 25 years at this point) I’ve done so with the understanding that these words actually refer to an age, not eternity. Ages are defined periods of time with a beginning and end. (What the ages referred to Biblically would be another lengthy study that I am not getting distracted with right now, although I’d love that distraction another time.) But lately the folks I’ve heard have been adamant that they actually do mean eternal, as in forever and ever.

But after reading the works of at least 5 trusted scholars, the consensus is that it could be either way – eternal or an age. The problem with biblical scholars, is that they often have existing biblical dogmas and biases, intentional or not, when they write their dictionaries and lexicons. Can I prove that is the case here? On my own, I doubt it.

So I did what all good academics do when they need answers fast. AI! This is actually the first time I’ve ever used AI in any Bible related study at all. I’m actually against the idea. The only reason I did so was because I wanted to see what NON-Biblical scholars thought of the words. Because the language of the ancient Greeks was not different depending on their beliefs. Their language was their language. I wanted to know what actual Greeks in the time of Christ thought those words meant. Not modern Greeks. Because a modern Greek could not be expected to know ancient Greek any more than I could be expected to know Old English, which, as far as I’m concerned is a foreign language.

My exact, unedited prompt and Chat GPT’s full unedited response are copy/pasted below.

[My Prompt:]

Explain the relationship of the word Aionios to Aion in Koine Greek. Also explain how the meanings of these words may have changed between 2000 years ago and today. Please use non-biblical, secular sources where possible.

[Response:]

GPT-4o mini

Relationship of the Words Aionios and Aion in Koine Greek

Aion (αἰών) and aionios (αἰώνιος) are significant terms in Koine Greek, often translated as “age” and “eternal” or “everlasting,” respectively. Understanding their relationship and the evolution of their meanings provides insight into how time and existence were perceived in ancient Greek thought and how these concepts may differ from contemporary interpretations.

Meaning of Aion and Aionios

• Aion (αἰών):
• This term primarily denotes an age, era, or epoch, often linked to a specific duration of time with a beginning and an end. Its roots can be traced back to early Greek thought where it was synonymous with life-span or lot, and it often implied a contextual frame within which events unfolded (Homer, Hesiod).
• As Greek philosophy evolved, particularly under Plato and Aristotle, aion came to represent broader temporal concepts, eventually encompassing cosmic or vast periods. Notably, Aristotle posited it as “always being” (aei on), suggesting an extension into perpetuity but not necessarily implying infinity.
• Aionios (αἰώνιος):
  • This adjective derives from aion and means pertaining to an age. Scholars often translate it as “eternal” or “everlasting,” but close examination reveals a more nuanced understanding. It suggests something that belongs to or is defined by an age, implying finite rather than unending duration.
  • Throughout ancient texts, aionios was less frequently used to suggest absolute eternity compared to the Greek term aidios (ἀΐδιος), which explicitly refers to timeless existence.

Evolution of Meanings Over Time

The meanings of aion and aionios have shifted throughout history and across different contexts, especially between the time of their original usage and contemporary understanding.

Historical Context and Usage

• Classical Literature:
  • In early Greek works, aion was not used to indicate eternity but rather specific periods characterized by moral or environmental conditions. For instance, Plato and pre-Socratic philosophers used aion to convey cyclical life and transformation within defined epochs, rather than an overarching endlessness.
• Biblical Translation:
  • The transition in meaning became evident during the translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek (the Septuagint, circa 200-300 BC) where olam, often meaning an indefinite time, was rendered as aion. This indicates an extension into spiritual dimensions without necessarily implying an infinite duration.
  • In the New Testament context, using aionios to describe life, judgment, or punishment reflects the prevailing thought about temporal realities rather than the concept of timeless eternity.

Contemporary Interpretations

• Modern Usage:
  • Today, many associate aionios with immediate and everlasting life. This interpretation aligns largely with theological frameworks developed in later centuries, which increasingly emphasized the notion of eternal punishment and life.
  • Conversely, committed interpretations argue for the view that both aion and aionios are best understood within the confines of a specific age or the transitional nature of existence, rather than as indicators of unending duration.

Critical Perspectives

There are critical viewpoints on the translations of aionios as “eternal.” Many scholars argue that contemporary definitions of eternity do not align with historical meanings. As demonstrated by the various authors and texts referenced in the initial searches:

• Bauer’s Lexicon: Indicates that aionios tends to imply limited durations rather than unending duration.
• Plato and Heraclitus: Illustrate that the idea of aion evolves over time from a lifespan to encompass broader ethereal concepts of life and existence.
• Various ancient authors, from Diodorus to Josephus, used aionios in contexts that suggest a significant timeframe but not absolute infinity.

Conclusion

The terms aion and aionios reveal an intricate relationship that reflects the cultural and philosophical insights of ancient Greek society. While aion denotes a defined period, aionios, though often interpreted through a lens of eternity, more accurately conveys characteristics of its defined age. Modern understandings have somewhat abstracted their meanings, often losing the context of specific temporal frameworks and their inherent qualities as understood by early Greek thinkers.

 

Search Results

• Aion and Aionios  logosofagape.com
• Does the Greek Word Aion Mean Eternity? mercyonall.org
• #5 – Examples of Aion(ios) in Scripture makepeacewithjesus.org

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The result is clear: Both Aion and Aionios referred, in Biblical times, to defined periods of time. Ages. Only in more modern times did the meaning shift to mean eternal or infinite, mostly to align with religious dogma.

Please note that my initial prompt was not a leading question. I did not ask at all to focus on whether the word referred to an age or eternity. I simply asked it if the meanings had changed over the years, and to highlight the difference between the two words – because I have heard it said that Aion can mean age, but Aionios always refers to eternity. Chat GPT is the one who decided to focus on those meanings and the modern misconception of eternity.

Chat GPT did point to a word that does mean timeless existence or eternal in the Bible. Aidios. So let’s look at it. It appears only twice in the Bible. The first is Roman’s 1:20. My favorite verse! “For the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even His everlasting [Aidios] power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.” God’s power and divinity is everlasting – eternal.

The other place is Jude 1:6, “Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, He has kept in everlasting [Aidios] bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.” The bonds that hold the fallen angels are also seen as eternal. Although from the context, it appears even that may not truly be the case either because it states that they are held there only until the final judgement. Perhaps the bonds themselves are capable of lasting forever even if they are not needed that long. Or perhaps the word is hyperbole in describing the strength of the bonds. We can’t really know. We do know, however that it does not refer to human judgement in this case, and that the word Aidios is never used once in reference to humans or their judgement.

How many more ways are necessary to make it clear that the Bible does not point to eternal torture? I hope by now I’ve made my case. But I do have one more verse I’d like to explain as a bonus prize! for those who have made it this far!

BONUS!

Revelation 20:10, “The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” The devil is not human.  The beast is likely not human, but who really knows? The false prophet? Possible human, maybe a hybrid. But in they go to the lake of fire to be tormented day and night forever and ever. Right there in black and white. So, does this override the rest of the research I just showed you? No. Because that is not at all what that verse means.

First, the “are” in the first sentence – “where the beast and false prophet are also,” does not exist. One cannot say they are still there when devil is thrown in because it only says that is where they were also thrown. Not where they currently reside in a very warm house.

The word translated tormented is basinizo, which literally means “to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal” (Thayer’s Lexicon and The Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew Englilsh Lexicon both state this word for word). Torture or torment are secondary meanings that are derived from this in the context that they are ways to test a person. The devil, beast and false prophet will have their hearts tested in the fire. Will they be pure gold? Silver? We know the answer. Would this change if the verse referred to regular humans? Gold and silver will be purified in the fire. Slag or dross is burned off, leaving the pure metal. If there is no gold or silver to be found, then the entirety will be burned up. That is the process.

To answer the first question I started this essay with – is there a differentiation between the “good person” who does not accept Christ and the intentionally wicked after the judgement? I only have the example I just gave as an answer. The refiners fire. The “good person” probably has some gold or silver left in their heart, albeit with a lot of impurities. The refining process will not be pleasant, but God is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” The intentionally wicked? I’m not the judge. The fire will decide if anything is left after the testing. The second death is awaiting some.

But what about forever and ever in Revelation 10? That is the phrase, Aion Aion. The repetition is a technique in both Hebrew and Greek for adding emphasis. In this context it could mean “age upon age,” or “to the end of the ages,” or something similar. Most often the former is chosen to fit the preconceived doctrine of eternal punishment. But the latter is just as possible and would fit what I have been laying out. But even “age upon age” would end once the ages end, which scripture says they do. Once the ages end, we will be at a point where time really doesn’t exist. The Greek way of looking at eternity is just the removal of time from the equation as it is simply a construct that makes the physical realm make sense to us. The spirit world is outside of time, and that is where we will live. That is eternal life. That is why God’s power and divinity are everlasting (aidios).

The bible nowhere teaches the idea of eternal torment for the wicked. It teaches death. Death is loss of life, which is quite the opposite of eternal life in torture. God’s character, from the beginning of the bible through to the end, shows compassion and mercy for His creation, for His children. He is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” Some apparently will not come to repentance. Those will see the second death, the death of the soul, not eternal life in the fire.